At least once per day I get asked by someone this very ambigous question: “How do I grow my online network?”. I am done answering this question because when I ask people what they are doing – it’s as if they have completely forgot about everything PRE-SOCIAL MEDIA. One of my main tenets for successful social media marketing is: Be a damn human. But it seems like most people have forgot that.
I am sure that this has been written about multiple times but at this point, it doesn’t seem like it’s sunk in for the majority of people out there. In my opinion, quality trumps quantity. So let’s get real for a minute and break it down.
Is it really helping you to randomly add people as ‘friends’ if you don’t even know them. I don’t care if Facebook tells you that you should. Why would someone want to be your ‘friend’ without knowing anything about you or why they should. Personally I have over 300 pending friend requests (I delete most of them or else it would be much more) from people that I have never met/talked-to/heard-of or who even bothered to send a personal message telling me who they are and why we should be friends.
Most people forget that it’s simply that easy. Let someone know about you and why you are a valuable ‘friend’. Or completely ignore Facebook and move on….
Twittter
Somehow this myth got perpetuated that the more people you follow will then follow you and that makes your more ‘powerful’. In my opinion, that’s bullshit. It relates back to SEO, I would rather have 20 people coming to my site each day for a specific term and 2 of them converting than to have 1,000,0000 and only 1 of them converting. It’s always weird to me that people don’t get this especially all of the ‘social media gurus/experts/swammis/leaders/throw in whatever term you want.
Do you really want to grow your Twitter network? Interact with people. Be a good source of information. Be a damn human.
Do you want to just grow your numbers? Follow every single person your can. Use tools to do it as well. Follow and unfollow someone until they follow you back. Think about how silly all of that sounds for a minute. Are you falling into that trap?
The same thing with Facebook seems to happen with LinkedIn. You meet someone at a conference/networking event/they find your info online/you are members of the same group/or whatever and in their mind, we should be connected online. OK. But WHY?
Unless I know someone personally and I know we should be connected – I will always send a personalized message when sending out a Connect request or have someone in my trusted network do an intro. The request can be as simple as:
It was great meeting you at [wherever we met] – I really enjoyed learning more about what you did. I think that there is a lot that we can do together and I would really like to connect here to start. Just as a reminder, my company specializes in Internet marketing & empowering companies/agencies with our software platforms.
Most of the time, it’s more detailed than that but that at least shows the person that I’m not just some ‘bot’ that is going to add every person that I met (or maybe didn’t even meet!).
I think we all need to get back to treating social media as ‘social’. It’s not about just stock-piling connections as if they are missles. It’s about creating & cultivating relationships.
Finally, if I can give you one last piece of advice: Don’t collect someone’s business card at an event/conference/etc and add it to your newsletter. This is the quickest way to lose that relationship forever (for both you & your company)….
Am I being too harsh? Or not harsh enough? I would love to hear your thoughts about the right ways to grow your networks online (I surely don’t have all the answers…..)
Chris- I think you’re totally inline and could go further. People are lazy, so being a real human and working for your connections, relationships and trust is just too hard for most. They’d rather game or scheme to get false satisfaction out of a follow number or friend count.
Just as your SEO example refers to, the numbers are hollow. Your 10k connections don’t find value in what you might put out there, they’re likely managing their social media the same way, only for the numbers.
“working for your connections, relationships and trust is just too hard for most. ”
Well said Aaron, I think you summed it up really well right there….
I 130% agree with you. I am extremely close to either deleting most of the folks on my facebook account or deleting the account as a whole. I recently changed my privacy settings on FB to restrict most people from interacting with me, because every time I sign on i feel like I am among strangers. Which is kinda goes against social media in the first place!
With Twitter I don’t even think about the numbers. Most of the time I am not even aware of how many people I am following or are following me. I like twitter more though because its completely opt-in. People that are interested in what i am doing can follow me, and I don’t have to reciprocate.
With LinkedIn, I don’t use it enough to just add anyone, so therefore I only accept folks I have met in person or know very well online.
Thanks for the great comments (as always) Joe. One of the strangest things that I see on LinkedIn is that people are so lazy that they simply add you as a ‘colleague’ for their company or someone that you ‘did work with’. Huh? I am neither.
I foresee the advent of micro-social networks “a-la-Carte” (eg: Path) were brotherhoods exchange comments, pics, links in absolute privacy.
Funnily enough facebook is aware of this tendency, so in order to retain users has created the “new groups”.
I think that people are more annoyed of the “costant buzz” that their privacy.
I guess one of the hardest parts of ‘micro-networks’ is getting enough people involved to have the conversations be ‘meaty’ enough. Forums are a great example of ‘micro-networks’ that can be huge and have very free flowing conversations/relationships/etc. Check out how big some actually can be: http://www.big-boards.com
Thanks!
Forums are, imho, gonna be slaughtered and devoured by the Zuckerbergsaurus-rex.
The life of forums is people interactions, you need to be online and attend, to keep a forum alive. It’s not a “push technology”, you must have the idea to “return” to the forum to keep in touch with people. But time and attention spans are limited so if your attention is diverted from the forum for days, you lose interest because you can’t understand the conversations anymore!
Micronetworks, expecially if they have a smartphone application, are a push technology. There’s a wall/stream/dashboard.
And there’s an implicit trust feeling, if i connect my 20-25 best friends and interact only with them, they expect me to act in a predetermined manner.
One notable exception is “4Chan” , but this is because it’s a the Dark Side of the net. And they have free cookies.
People have been saying that about forums for a LONG time and they are still around & many are thriving.
I love giving this example: http://www.pbnation.com/ — it’s people who are interested and want to connect about PAINT BALLING. There are over 500,000 members and over 6,000,0000 posts. All around one topic…
Vertical “networks” have a chance to survive, if there’s a costant increase of members, eg, MMORPGS like world of warcraft and the likes.
PBnation… well, look at the data from the big-boards, the pageviews are decreasing. A lot. Is it seasonal ?
http://www.big-boards.com/board/24/
There will also be a niche for forums who dwell in “grey areas” which are unwelcomed by Thefacebook like spy tools, black hat seo, how “enbiggen” your penis.
I have to disagree. Medical boards are very helpful to get support for something you don’t want your “real” social networks to know about. Just check out “am I pregnant?” or “i might have cancer” forums. They are very active. I don’t see niche forums going away, unless some kind of niche social network or very anonymous social network comes out.
Excellent point Jaded!
I agree, Jaded. And thank you, Chris, for making a very valid point. Quality beats quantity.
As with anything us marketers do, it all comes down to goals. If you goal is to have a billion twitter followers purely for appearance – then do that. If your goal is to have only the people you really know as friends on facebook – then do that.
My point is that why is their a right or wrong when it comes to personal Social Media? What might be right for you, might not be right for anyone else…and that is ok.
I’m not saying their is a right or wrong Kieran. What I am saying is that I think things have become misguided. And I think that through the more ‘connections/friends/whatevers’ we are accumulating – the more disconnected we are actually becoming…
That is my point Chris – what if your goal is not to be personally connected to anyone (or most people) on Facebook, twitter, linkedin..etc? What if you only care about the numbers? Lets be honest – anyone who bills themselves as a social media expert / guru / ninja will 100% agree with you in principle but they would not be happy with 100 “engaged” twitter followers. Numbers matter – that is just a fact.
My only point is that there is no Black and white when it comes to social media…there is a whole lot of gray going on.
Agreed. I don’t think there is a black & white in any part of marketing to be honest…
I think the diversity in ways which people decide to utilize their social media channels, creates some of the issues you mention.
For example, I use Facebook for friends and family, others use Facebook as a networking tool…it creates a disconnect, for me. Before FB killed off the the FBML sidebar, I had a little “disclaimer” and directed those that were not interested in photos of my kids to LinkedIn.
Love the “Be a damn human’ approach, it is what has worked best for me as I work to grow a network.
In person, being myself… just “Pat”. Also, going analog to build digital, with hand-written notes. A lost art, and has helped create some great online connections.
Good post Chris, I think many share your frustration.
I love that you had me intro you at Pubcon as “Just Pat” – kind of sums up your ego (or lack there-of)…
Thanks for the comment!
Chris,
that all makes sense to me. The power of networks is in the relationship between peers – it has to be mutually beneficial. After all a network is only worth what you get from it – and as you certainly know what you get out is usually a factor of what you put in.
I try to search out people who help me keep up with fast moving agenda, offer insight and link me to others that I can benefit from. In return I try to make sure that when I tweet I add value to my followers in some way – either through interaction or by sharing intelligence / insight
That works for me
Rob
“it has to be mutually beneficial. After all a network is only worth what you get from it”.
Even though those were fragments of two different sentences – I think they summed up many of my thoughts perfectly. Thanks Rob!
Thank you for this reality check. I’m still a newbie in the Social Media world and have had some pressure to grow my numbers. It’s good to hear that it really is quality not quantity that counts. As most of my advice comes from those who are immersed in Social Media, I sometimes wonder if there’s a little bit of the “Emperor’s new clothes” in their view of what’s going on.
Hi Nancy – thanks for the comment! I think there is a lot ‘Emperor’s News Clothes” in social media marketing. That’s why it’s so important for you test what works best for you/your company rather than just taking anyone’s opinions as gospel (including my own
)
300 requests! You’re a rockstar
I think you should hire a “social media shaolin monk” (guru is so last decade) to handle your profile… There are some kind of kung fu originated by the Shaolin traditions, which are specialized in very fast and accurate strikes, so handle 300 hits on the keyboard should be a breeze!! (you may have to buy a new keyboard).
I am far from a ‘rockstar’ Andrea and I think that anyone who knows me (as you do) knows that I don’t think that way. But I will look into hiring one of those “social media shaolin monks”
FREAKIN’ YES!
Technology does not equal marketing (or networking). Ugh. Why can’t people just be themselves and get in front of the people they’re interested in knowing better/working with?
This is one instance where technology hasn’t helped us evolve. We’re “de-volving.”
Thanks for calling this out.
Karri
PS: There is actually an upper limit on how many real relationships a human being can hold in their head and their heart. I think the number is something like 150. Charlie Gilkey (productive flourishing dot com) talks about this … It’s more strategic to concern yourself with that 150 people because they will spread your message far and wide on your behalf …
Just sayin’
Love this Karri:
“It’s more strategic to concern yourself with that 150 people because they will spread your message far and wide on your behalf…”
One of our main goals with our clients is to help them identify their evangelists (many times it’s much less than 150 to start with) and to listen to them & to give them the tools/knowledge to help spread the brand/person’s message to others.
Thanks for the awesome comments!
Not a single complaint from me. This post is on the money. I especially liked the section on Facebook. Great work.
Thanks Trudy – much appreciated!
Love this post, and totally agree. Especially feel like Joe Hall in comments earlier. It’s so important to be human, but to be human and work for a living doesn’t make for easy “let’s chat” time. It’s too easy to get caught up in time-wasting activity, so that makes it uber-important to visit, follow, and build lists around the people that you most enjoy and have the most potential for actual interaction and synergy.
It’s funny that we can be in a social environment and feel like we’re in a room filled with strangers. I don’t want that, either. I choose to build credibility and respect – and actual personality – before I get carried away with the size of my follower list. Time-consuming, but it’s proving to be a good approach : )
I think it’s deceptive to assume that a huge following is ‘the’ feather in a cap. “Quality trumps quantity” can not only refer to the size of the following, but also the content we share. ~Thanks for the post, a good Monday read!
-> “I think it’s deceptive to assume that a huge following is ‘the’ feather in a cap. “Quality trumps quantity” can not only refer to the size of the following, but also the content we share. ”
I don’t think I could have said it any better Susan. Thanks for the insightful comment!
I use every social network you mentioned here for one simple reason: I am involved into online business. Every single social network you mentioned here is waste of time. Why? Simple: Facebook shows you what your friends talk or are interested about, Twitter is just a TXT mesages service one to many, and too many start just to tweet without saying anything important (like 70% is 4square check-ins, or telling you that s/he just took another breath) and LinkedIn is full of groups (like over 700k groups for just 132 jobs categories). I am quiet sure this will change soon.
Hey Marius – thanks for the comment. I am curious about one of your statements:
“Every single social network you mentioned here is waste of time.”
I understand that you are involved in online marketing and probably feel a ‘pull’ to use them but why would you want to spend your time on anything that is a ‘waste of time’?
It’s a waste of time for anyone else who has nothing to do with the online business. For the rest of us, whatever business online we have, is an endless resource.
Connections are influence…you should know that :.) Someone might “friend” you as an invitation to a conversation which potentially could lead to a business opportunity.
The wisest advice I ever received is “Never turn down a blind date,”…I met my wife because I followed that advice. IMO, that advice extends to social media…sure, most of the connections will either be worthless or someone trying to get something from you, but it’s the exceptions that can pay you back in spades.
Agreed Todd. I have met some great people as random connections and some have led to really valauble relationships. But I would have to say that 99% of them came from me either researching a bit about them & connecting that way, being introduced by someone I trusted, meeting them IRL or vice-versa (them doing the same).
Agree?
Well, maybe 97-98% :.) But I still am an open-networker and for people looking to become more visible in our industry, that’s the path I would recommend.
I think there is a big difference between being an ‘open networker’ and a ‘whore networker’ Todd. Excuse my language but I think it needs to be said.
I know you and I also know that you fall into the former rather than the latter. I just think it’s irresponsible for people to encourage (or even glorify) the latter….
Fantastic post.
Many times I will get new clients that are ready to jump into using social media and start building their community. They start asking things like “I’ve heard about a Facebook/Twitter bot, can we start using that? I need more followers, I NEED MORE FOLLOWERS”.
My response is much like yours “yes it is possible, but are you planning on making a connection with each of these new followers or just spamming them with your content?”
Followers or Friends or Likes is not everything. Sure it looks good and probably feels good to have those big numbers, but if those people are not converting to whatever it is you want them to do, whats the point of having them there?
When I use something like Search.Twitter.com to find people, I seek out highly relevant users. Then I follow the users and immediate send a message to them. @soandso, I see you need some web development help. I am a developer, lets chat when you have some time
It’s real easy, 9/10 times I get a response and start building that relationship.
I guess it boils down to this, if you are going to take the time to target and follow/add to friends someone, why not take the extra 30 seconds to reach out to that person and really make a connection with them?
I’ll leave it at that, great post!
Thanks Brett. The difference between a ‘connection’ and simply a ‘number’ is a really important point to remember.
I think we are so lucky that we have so many ways to easily connect with people all over the world. Thanks for the reality check. It is so easy to get caught up in the numbers game. I’m all about building quality long-term relationships. I’m not interested in carpet bombing the world with my message but actually engaging like-minded folks.
“I think we are so lucky that we have so many ways to easily connect with people all over the world”
I agree whole-heartedly. When I first really understanding the true power of Twitter – it was that I could easily (and quickly) connect with people from all over the world. I did things like this:
* http://searchengineland.com/twitter-wrote-this-column-for-me-13889
* http://www.blueglass.com/blog/twitter-ultimate-time-waster-or-great-tool/
And it showed me that I had access to great/smart people from all walks of life (and this was just with a few thousand followers).
Thanks for the comment Kathryn!
Yea, It’s almost a joke when I see people out there comparing how many twitter followers they have or how big their facebook group is. That’s great and all, but what do you do with all those people following you?
Take “this guy I know” for example. His boss measures his social media success based on how many followers the account has. Every week, he wants to know how many followers they gained that week. He doesn’t like it when he checks the account and see’s that he’s just “talking to people”. He says that’s wasting his work time. Micro-managing at its worst.
I feel bad for that “guy you know” Jeff
As most of the comments have already stated…you are spot on! When I first got involved using social media I gave in to the lure of trying to get lots of followers. But, it soon seemed pretty crazy. After all I don’t try to do that in my “human” world. I came to the conclusion that I wouldn’t do anything in social media that I wasn’t comfortable doing in a face-to-face meeting with someone. And, that includes shoving a business card in someone’s face – which is comparable to what too many people do on social media sites. I don’t give a business card to someone unless they ask for it, so why would I behave any differently on social media sites.
“I came to the conclusion that I wouldn’t do anything in social media that I wasn’t comfortable doing in a face-to-face meeting with someone. ”
BINGO! It’s always interesting to me when I meet people who are ‘Internet tough guys’ in person and they are VERY different in real life. Be yourself. If you suck – it’ll show. If you are great – it’ll show…
Thanks Phil.
Being human isn’t just a key ingredient to growing your network but it’s key to marketing. I am just a pest control guy, and how many people really love hearing about ratios of product to water in a pest control spray? Boring.
… But how many people don’t like ice cream? How many people don’t like an interesting story? That’s all part of being human. That’s part of understanding marketing. The power of a message isn’t simply in if it is cute or memorable. The power of a message is if it means something to your audience, if it connects to them.
Being human. Being a person. Knowing someone as a person and not as a dollar sign… To “know someone personally…”
And I must agree with @Todd above… it really boils down to influence. Marketing, content, media, being social… Influence is King.
Great post.
“I am just a pest control guy”
After getting to know you at BlueGlass FL, I know you are MUCH more than just a ‘pest control guy’. Thanks for the comment Thomas!
What’s really funny about it is that misuse of these services tends to sour people on them. I’ve met several people who have told me that Facebook is useless. My response is generally along the lines of what did you find useless about it? Their response to this is inevitability something like “I friended a whole bunch of people and got nothing but spam and stuff I didn’t care about”.
It’s amazing to me that anybody would ever “friend” somebody they didn’t actually know. What do you think “friend” means anyway? Are they your friends in real-life? If not, then why the heck would they be your friends on Facebook?
Twitter is not immune from this either. So, you followed a bunch of people you don’t care about, and then get a bunch of stuff you don’t care about in the feed. Well, duh.
The problem with social media and networking for some people is that they don’t consider the internet to be an extension of the real-world or of themselves. It’s something separate to them, compartmentalized in some fashion. These are generally people who don’t actually work on the internet or use it as part of their daily lives. So they treat it as such. Once you start them on the path of treating it as an extension of themselves, and that what they do and follow actually matters in the real-world too, then they get a much better grasp on it.
Likewise, sometimes people see this “new media” as a way to promote their business or themselves or whatever, and so don’t see it as a way of connecting to people, but instead like it’s a TV commercial. They only see the one-way street, from them to others, and not as an actual communication tool. You get this a lot in business that want to be “on social media” without understanding what that actually means. You cannot be too harsh with these people, you have to explain to them that growing a business means actually having to care about your customers as people instead of treating them as some form of cattle that give you money. Once they get that, then it’s easier to explain that social media is a two way street, where you can say things, but you also have to listen and respond to what other people say as well.
Wow Otto – that comment could have been a great blog post in and of itself – thanks!
I love this part: “on social media”.
What does that even mean? How can you be on/in/around/etc something like social media without even understanding it.
Thanks for the great comment…
Personally, on Facebook I never add strangers it just seems creepy. I mean it’s always people I have met or know. Now twitter is different I started to follow people because I wanted to talk to more people and most of my real friends that are on FB are illiterate on Twitter and then I just feel bad if I don’t follow people back. Though my numbers on Twitter will normally show me following more because I do follow celebs. I think you can do a follow back method, but you should be ready to make friends and talk and for those who don’t want to talk or just spam you you should then just get rid of. It’s not worth anything to have a bot following you. As for linked in I am guilty of asking for invites, but I normally do that so I can question them about there job. Which is creepy, but I get some great feedback at times. Each network has it’s pluses and negatives it’s up to you how you use them, but I agree being human does help.
“It’s not worth anything to have a bot following you.”
+1 Kate. Thanks for the comment!
The downside of social media is that it turned relationships into numbers, and people started to think those numbers were an end in and of themselves (and not an abstractions of a means to an end). Followers are a currency now, but like any currency, it’s only as valuable as the structure behind it. Having 20,000 Twitter followers you barely know or that signed up for a month and then disappeared is like having a chest full of Confederate dollars. It may look cool, but good luck taking it to the bank.
In a very real way, online networking has contributed to my IRL relationships and my bottom-line business (as much as 70% of it, I’ve calculated), but it didn’t happen by playing a numbers game. It happened by sincerely trying to get to know people, figuring out what they do, taking an interest in them, and being relevant. Those rare times that I make it to a conference, I do my best to cement those online relationships into face-to-face meetings, even if just for a few moments. I can’t do that with 50,000 people, and I don’t want to.
“Having 20,000 Twitter followers you barely know or that signed up for a month and then disappeared is like having a chest full of Confederate dollars. It may look cool, but good luck taking it to the bank.”
How do you constantly come up with great analogies that put a smile on my face?
Thanks Pete!
Chris, I still have a facebook friend request status from your profile that says ‘Awaiting friend confirmation” dated back to August 21 at 11:25pm from a Message that I sent you that read “Hey Chris, It was good to meet you at ASE. Let’s connect and see how we can work together. Best, Larry” Be a damn human! Accept me. I am NOT a Bot!
Hi Larry –
I do remember meeting you and chatting briefly. I guess it goes back to how I use Facebook. It’s a bit more private for me and not really a place that I add people right away until I know them well. I wasn’t always that way so now I wind up spending more time removing people (that I didn’t ‘really’ know) than adding people.
But I did just add you on LinkedIn
~Chris
Hi Chris – I believe in what you are saying here. As you know I participate somewhat lightly in social media.
There’s just one problem though, many people out there ranging from media to employers to conference organizers haven’t read this post and haven’t gotten into the serious strategic business issues which that people who spend more of their day offline rather than online perform and do not value it at the level they should.
Stated a different way, I’d love to see what you write above become a reality. That seems rather unlikely as long as some of the undesired behaviors are highly rewarded by certain parties. I’d be curious if you have any thoughts on changing this dynamic in the future?
Hi David –
I think it’s going to be a learning process and that eventually many people companies will get it.
Let’s bring it back to the SEO example, smart people/companies have realized that having a few REALLY good links is usually better than having a ton of crap links (in most cases
.
It’s all so new and there are so many options/venues/choices out there. There is also a ton of misinformation (which doesn’t help)…
Thanks for the comment.
I agree with you that it’s important to be, and act, human, but I don’t think every connection you make has to meet a level of intimacy to be worthwhile in the long run.
Social Media is great when it’s about humans interacting on a real level, but let’s be honest, it’s also the modern Rolodex. There’s a sweet spot somewhere in between the criteria that used to allow someone’s business card into your Rolodex and the criteria that allows them to be your “friend” or contact on these sm sites.
And it’s different by site… It think the one-way nature of the Twitter stream allows for the least intimate connections… FB boundaries should be kept more un-bastardized, and closer to the definition of “friends” that we all used to live by.
LinkedIN is the one in between… and until someone shows me a downside of having more connections here, I’m going to keep adding people that I meet at conferences, interviews, and casual introductions.
“I agree with you that it’s important to be, and act, human, but I don’t think every connection you make has to meet a level of intimacy to be worthwhile in the long run.”
Agreed. I think that every network is a bit different. Again, these are just my personal opinions and what has worked for me after doing this for many years. It’s not going to be right for every person or company but I do think that having a more (or at least) somewhat personal relationship with your connections will go farther in the long-run….
Thanks for the comment!
I totally agree with you, but as a tip – don’t delete all those friend requests. Once you do, people can try and re-add you. If you keep them pending, they can’t. Not…that I do that. At all
I actually don’t even bother deleting them anymore….
Written opinions too you, the top you, good blog, worthy of collection and the like, I will always come later, thanks for sharing
The irony of ‘you’ leaving this comment on this post is just too good to remove as spam
http://bit.ly/e6Jnfc
Chris, you are right! Why would I start a relationship with somebody I don’t even know or I don’t like? Yes, it is worth to build up a loyal community. But nobody will achieve this goal by spamming around and using the social web as just another tool to blast out f*ck*ng sales messages. Like you said, Chris: be helpful, answer questions, interact, engage, be human. That says it all.
“be helpful, answer questions, interact, engage, be human”
BINGO!
Chris, you’re right on point here. I think it comes down to having any connection within a network being “real.” Having 10,000 followers is pointless unless you’re really connected with them. Just as you invested time in your real life friendships, the same must be done online. I’d rather have 100 contacts I can work with and help out, than 10,000 I can’t.
Thanks for the comment Gareth. It’s all about being able to provide value and then those relationships will come back to help you (just like your IRL ones do)….
Hi Chris,
I’m not sure whether this is written here or not. I’d like to share a few thoughts,
We’ve seen many websites having FB, Twitter and Linkedin logos to connect with them and thats a good way to get quality fans and followers who actually visits your website and takes interest to know more about products, services or any other information that you share. However, I’d say we can also share all these 3 links in the News Releases, Blog Posts, Social Interaction on another social network websites etc places.
Also, if possible we can have it in our signature on personal emails, we can also have it in our business card so if the other person is interested then they can connect on our network.
May be somewhere it is not possible but we can use it wherever possible.
That is a lovely discussion Chris. An absolutely spot on blog post followed by a rather highly involved discussion. I am sure this blog of yours can do something much better what even a closed FB group would do. And your point on forums in well placed. I 100% agree with you. Sometimes, refining my search to “Discussions” on Google has helped me more than anything else. That is the REAL voice where real concerns are answered.
Thanks